NPR’s Ailsa Chang consults with Oklahoma Chief law officer Mike Hunter about his state’s winning case versus Johnson & Johnson over the business’s function in the opioid crisis.


The landmark choice in Oklahoma state court the other day has substantial ramifications for who need to be held economically accountable for the country’s opioid crisis. A judge has actually bought Johnson and Johnson to pay Oklahoma state $572 million. That lacked the $17 billion the state had actually required. Joining me now is the state attorney general of the United States of Oklahoma, Mike Hunter. He argued the case on his state’s behalf.


MIKE HUNTER: Hi, Ailsa. Excellent to be with you all.

CHANG: Thanks for making the effort to talk with us. Now, I wish to begin with how blame is getting administered here due to the fact that the supply chain behind this opioid epidemic included numerous gamers – right? – not simply producers, not simply the suppliers, however likewise drug stores that give the drugs, physicians who recommend them. Johnson and Johnson tablets comprised – what? – less than 1% of the marketplace in Oklahoma, however you call them, quote, “the kingpin of the opioid epidemic.” Extremely quickly inform me why that is.

HUNTER: Well, you need to begin at the start, and in the mid-’90 s, there was actually a plan established by opioid – what are now opioid producers to establish a magic drug that prescribers might utilize to decisively get rid of the discomfort of clients. And it was based upon this concept that there required to be a 5th important indication – discomfort. So this all started with Johnson and Johnson purchasing a poppy farm in Tasmania down in Australia, and for the last twenty years, they supplied 60% of the active pharmaceutical active ingredient to the remainder of the opioid producers in the nation. So they earned money when they offered their drugs. They earned money when all of the other business they provided offered pharmaceutical opioids.

CHANG: However once again, in Oklahoma, they comprise less than 1% of the marketplace there, so why should the bulk of the blame for the opioid epidemic in your state rests on Johnson and Johnson when there were numerous other gamers that kept opioid tablets streaming into your state?

HUNTER: Well, Ailsa, the conduct of opioid producers, as far as I’m worried – and our proof, honestly, develops this – their conduct was indivisible. They collaborate to avoid policy efforts in states and in the federal government to attempt to reduce the impact of the opioid epidemic. They took part in unbranded promo of opioids. And at the end of the day, you are accountable for damage that you belong of under our public annoyance law. If other business were accountable, we determined them. There have actually been 2 accuseds in this case who have actually settled with the state of Oklahoma.

CHANG: Right – Teva and Purdue Pharma.

HUNTER: Yes. So Johnson had the chance to do that. They likewise had the chance to generate other celebrations in this suit if they believed they were similarly culpable, however they didn’t do that. In truth, their position was that they had absolutely no duty for the opioid epidemic.

CHANG: I wish to discuss the $572 million. I suggest, it seems like a great deal of loan, however your state initially required more than 17 billion. Where is that loan required most today?

HUNTER: Well, it’s required most to handle what our company believe are as numerous as 100,000(inaudible) who have a dependency that has actually been brought on by prescription opioids. So making certain that the state – in such a way that’s detailed, in such a way that’s organized whether you reside in a city or villages – making certain that services in the classification of rehab and treatment therapy are readily available to folks so that we can get them well once again …

CHANG: However that’s the concern.

HUNTER: … So that they can recover their life …

CHANG: Right.

HUNTER: … And their future. Excuse me.

CHANG: I suggest, how is Oklahoma geared up to guarantee the cash does get invested that method? I understand the judge the other day set out a reduction prepare for the state, however do you think that Oklahoma is prepared to put that strategy into action quickly?

HUNTER: Well, as primary law officer of the state, I have actually got something to state about that, as does the judge along with state leaders. I have actually currently begun conferences with senior folks in the legislature and the guv’s workplace, and I can guarantee you that we’re going to work arm-in-arm to make certain that this loan goes to the locations that the judge’s order has actually determined, and they’re basically education, avoidance – as I stated, rehab and treatment. And after that there’s a reserve for police. So those funds, as far as I’m worried, are committed by court order. They’re allocated, and I’m positive we’ll collaborate to get that loan released the method it requires to be.

CHANG: The factor I’m asking these concerns exists were some lessons found out after the tobacco settlement where there were likewise locations designated to invest loan on, and a great deal of the cash wound up getting diverted, you understand? So how does Oklahoma guarantee that this loan does not simply ultimately wind up in roadways or parks or whatever cities desire which all of it does enter into avoidance, into healthcare, into rehab, as you specified that the judge’s order included?

HUNTER: Yeah, well, Ailsa, past is beginning, so there’s currently been loan committed to what our company believe is going to be the National Center for Dependency Science in Tulsa at the OSU Health Sciences Center. That center for health and healing has actually currently gotten $5 million plus in personal funds. We’re putting $200 countless the Purdue Pharma settlement …

CHANG: Right.

HUNTER: … Into that entity, which entity is actually going to be the beachhead, if you will, for how we handle dependency in this state and around the nation. So that’s a vital part of how we have actually currently designated the cash. Allocated for easing off the epidemic in the state – the opioid epidemic – is the cash that Teva paid to settle their part …

CHANG: Right.

HUNTER: … Of this suit. So we’re clear in this state that we have actually got to invest this loan on what it’s meant to be invested in, which’s easing off the opioid epidemic.

CHANG: Now, you’re the leading attorney in your state, however let me ask you this. Lawsuits is not going to singlehandedly pull the nation out of the opioid crisis, so besides pursuing huge business with really deep pockets, what else can Oklahoma do now?

HUNTER: Well, we approach this as sort of a three-front obstacle. We altered policy in this state in 2015. 7 expenses were passed that provide us more control over recommending. It offers police more authority over tablets entering into the state. This lawsuits is going to provide us loan to handle the epidemic. And finally, when we determine prescribers who are being careless with their clients …


HUNTER: … Or running tablet mills, we’re prosecuting them.

CHANG: All right. That’s Oklahoma State Chief Law Officer Mike Hunter.

Thanks quite.

HUNTER: Thanks, Ailsa. Thanks for having me on.

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